10-Mar-2018 (Sat)
Wherein no good deed goes unpunished.

Short version:

I kicked a support band off of a bill because I learned that they are virulent misogynists. Then the headliner, who claim to definitely not be Nazis, cancelled the whole show.

Long version:

You are probably aware that we do a lot of metal shows here.

That's not because I'm some big metal fan. Actually I don't give a shit about metal. We don't book everything based on my personal tastes. We do a lot of metal here because we do a lot of all kinds of music here. Our mission is to provide an outlet for a wide variety of music and art. We'll book pretty much anything, so long as we think it won't be a security problem, a legal problem, or lose us a bunch of money.

But you know what? We chose not to do business with misogynists, racists, homophobes and Nazis.

Not on purpose, anyway. Sure, some things have slipped through -- for example, Combichrist played here several times before I became aware of how vile they are -- but one does what one can.

With the world going to shit, I think it's more important than ever to make ethical decisions before financial ones.

So we had booked this band Watain, and they were bringing this other band Destroyer666 on tour with them. I don't know anything about these bands; don't care to, not my thing. But in January, someone pointed out to me that someone from Destroyer666 was quoted as saying, "Those #metoo cunts just need a hard cock".

Well, that's not someone I choose to do business with.

So I told my team, "Destroyer666 is not playing on my stage. If you can get them off the bill great; if not, cancel the whole show."

Well, the agent representing the headliner represents some other bands that we do care about, so my team took their time trying to work it out with him. The agent dragged his feet on it for months (and why wouldn't he? He chose to represent these people, his job is to get them gigs, and maybe if he ignores the problem it will go away.)

Well, the problem didn't go away, so we removed them from the bill in mid-February. I said, "We need to tell people about this", but my team were worried about antagonizing the agent and kept telling me "Uh, just give me a few more days", and of course nothing happened. So, that was a mistake.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago people finally noticed that they were not on the bill.

According to many, many comments aimed at me on Facebook and Twitter, the fact that I chose not to do business with a band over their rapey, abusive rhetoric makes me a "pussy" and a "faggot".

Let me be very clear about this:

If you feel that way, then by all means, stay away from DNA Lounge. We don't want your business. We try to be an inclusive venue where people of many different communities and backgrounds can feel safe and have a good time, and that means we are not welcoming to misogynists, racists, homophobes and fascists.

If that's you -- fuck off.

If you passively tolerate that in your community -- you're part of the problem.

So among the shouts of "pussy" and "faggot" and "censorship" and "cuck" and all the "what-about"-ism, one of the funnier comments was one that said, basically, "Metalheads are just chill people who want to see a show with no politics, why are you picking on us?"

Yes, metalheads are a simple, gentle folk who merely want to enjoy their growled sexist and racist diatribes in peace!

Part of the problem.

And I'll bet the dudes who say things like "SJWs are ruining metal" are at the same time wondering why there aren't more "chicks" at their shows. Hmmmm, could there be a connection?

Also, pro tip, if someone accuses you of saying something virulently misogynistic and your denial includes the phrase "PC hysteria" -- dude, now everybody is sure that you said it.


Then it gets better: after this all started blowing up, people pointed out to me that Watain have been ducking accusations of being Nazis for a decade.

How about that.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but do you know who has never been accused of being a Nazi? Literally everyone I know.

It's actually really, really easy to avoid being accused of being a Nazi. First, don't be a Nazi! Second, don't be Nazi-adjacent! Don't be that guy who says shit like, "Oh, they're not Nazis, they're just fascinated with the Third Reich", or, "They're not Nazis, they just believe in blood purity", or, "They're not Nazis, they just hate immigrants", or, "They're not Nazis, the just don't like how the Jews control the banks."

Or the best -- the best rebuttal -- "What, can't you take a joke?"

Or -- Watain's own rebuttal -- "Metal doesn't have anything to do with the world like you know it."

Uh huh.

Anyway, we had been planning to go forward with the Watain show (minus Destroyer666) anyway because by the time all this bullshit came to a head, it was too late to back out of our contract without it costing us a lot of money and (more to the point) them getting paid anyway. But then at the last minute Watain decided to cancel the show.

Problem solved, I guess, and lessons learned: I guarantee you that my team will be googling things like "bandname nazi" more often in the future than they have been so far.

I understand that Watain and Destroyer666 will now be playing at Social Hall SF. Tickets purchased for the DNA show will be honored there. (Update: Social Hall SF decided that they didn't want it either. The show has now been cancelled and all tickets are being refunded.)


So, it's not cheap, having ethics.

If you would like to support a venue that chooses not to do business with misogynists and fascists, please consider contributing to our Patreon.

219 Responses:

  1. Tek says:

    Thanks for making the hard decisions when you know they're right! We already have tickets to a show this week, but I'll try to drag along some extra friends to help you recoup your expenses.

    • Souleatrr says:

      You sound like a typical shithead liberal to me. You talk about diversity and inclusion ad nauseam but the moment someone doesn't share your exact view you do everything you can to stamp them out. Cowardly is what you are. If you don't want to book metal acts by all means don't but stop trying to play the social justice crusader just to pump up your donations from the mindless masses.

      • Tek says:

        That's precious, Snowflake! I was raise a gun-toting, pickup-driving redneck. I have an enormous tolerance for differing opinions. But when those opinions swing into literal Nazi territory, screw 'em.

        • EnemyOfTheState says:

          No one yet has provided a single shred of proof that anything that either yourself or Mr Whiney at the DNALounge alleges is even remotely true. He banned a band from the venue because allegedly "in January, someone pointed out to me that someone from Destroyer666 was quoted as saying, "Those #metoo cunts just need a hard cock".

          No actual evidence was required, no actual proof needed for this sniveling rodent to virtue signal how woke he is for brownie points to every other idiot who thinks that everyone should be taken at their word as long as they're at least as far left as they are & that only left/far left/alt-left businesses should have the right to deny services to those they don't wish to support for whatever reason they see fit, a right they'll hypocritically fight tooth & nail against allowing anyone else to enjoy.

          Some nebulous allegation without any presented proof has become more than enough reason to convict & to deny service as far as the alt-left is concerned here, an act that would draw swift condemnation & national media attention if a Christian business had have done to a gay or transgender artist what DNALounge did to Destroyer666.

          Apparently, according to Mr Whiney, anyone who disagrees with Mr Whiney & his ridiculous, over the top & possibly illegal actions is at least a Nazi apologist or a rape apologist & possibly any ridiculous combination of the above for no other reason than their dissent. Dissent toward his ridiculous, ludicrous & self-righteous "reasoning" & ranting as to how anyone who doesn't immediately support his intellectually abhorrent "reasoning" & moral fascism is a racist, misogynist, ...phobe, ...ist, ...phobe, ...phobe, ...ist blah blah blah fucking blah.

          Apparently you agree with him which means that you're at least as ignorant as he is. Fascists like you lot are a massive part of the problem because if mere accusation has become enough to convict in the court of public opinion no one is innocent. The Nazi's did plenty of reactionary banning too & thought that anyone who disagreed with them were guilty of any number of crimes. Like Mr Whiney said it really is easy to not be accused of being a Nazi, all you have to do is don't behave like a Nazi.

          I accuse Mr Whiney from the DNALounge & everyone who supports him of being Nazi fascists because you've all behaved like Nazi fascists. The only fascism the world currently has to fear is the fascist behaviour of the alt-left. Christians apparently have to decorate cakes for homosexual weddings whilst alt-left venue managers loke Mr Whiney get to deny business to a band based upon mere rumours of free speech they disagree with. Either businesses should be able to decide who they do & do not do business with for whatever reason or they should have to provide the same service to those they disagree with they do to those they support. that

          The difference between centrists/classical liberals/libertarians/conservatives as opposed to alt-leftists/less extreme but equally as stupid yet slightly more moderate leftists is that the former group either believes that every business should either be wholly subject to anti-discrimination laws without exception or businesses should all be free to choose who they do & do not do business with based upon whatever criteria they choose, the latter group however (that's yourself, Mr Whiney & anyone else who mistakenly agrees with you) somehow wants the right to both choose who they do business with whilst demanding that everyone they don't like be subject to anti-choice laws they themselves are exempt from.

          This is what it all boils down to, you lot hyporitically want leftist businesses to have the right to choose who they do business with for any reason they see fit whilst denying all others the very same right. You're all hypocrites of the lowest form.

      • Hatredisntpartofinclusion says:

        Hatred, like that from those who wish ill on ppl because of their race gender sexual orientation or other UNCHANGABLE aspect of themselves doesn’t count as something deserving of inclusivity or diversity! Evil is fucking evil and it doesn’t get to exist peacefully in this world. There is a special place in hell for ppl like you. Satan can’t wait to meet you. I’m sure you’re thrilled about that though ;)

      • Ramona Walker says:

        You poor mouth breathing troglodyte...Inclusion does not mean welcoming people who EXCLUDE other people, ie...Nazis want other races to die or leave our country....misogynists want women to shut up and take whatever treatment is dealt out by men of that Ilk....your days of control are over! Get a real life.

      • Laoxi says:

        Your mom says to come upstairs, it's time for dinner.

      • Mark Kraft says:

        "the moment someone doesn't share your exact view..."

        ...by saying that victims of rape and sexual assault "just need a hard cock"?

        Or were you talking about that other band who released a demo called "go fuck your Jewish god" and used to do Nazi salutes on stage?

        Personally, I'm an American, and think it's pretty damn patriotic to hate Nazis and fascists. (They declared war on us, if you remember. And killed American merchant seamen, even before that point. http://ww2today.com/17th-august-1941-torpedoed-and-adrift-in-the-atlantic ) ... so, if you want to talk about someone who doesn't share my exact viewpoint, that would be, say... a complete pacifist. Or perhaps a pro-capitalist free trader, who thinks Nazi money is as good as any other money.

        What that wouldn't be, however, is a fascist, a Nazi sympathizer, or someone stupid enough to embrace fascist hate for shits and giggles.

        Perhaps you don't realize what someone not sharing your "exact view" is anymore, because you're a bit of an idiot? Or maybe just generally sympathetic or tolerant of fascists, in a pretty unamerican way?

  2. Nazi punks/metalheads really should fuck off.

  3. I just read this and upped my monthly Patreon and you should too.

    • Ty Thompson says:

      Nah you shouldn't. He treats his employees like dirt, steals credit card tips, and badmouths his pizza employees behind their backs. Worked there for a year. Got tired of it.

      • J.R. "Bob" Dobbs says:

        I like how you're accusing him of criminal behavior in a public forum. Since he's such a nefarious individual I'm sure he won't do anything like sue you for defamation.

  4. Thank you for being a place im proud to go.

  5. @bizzyunderscore says:

    I think you changed something in your css, userpics are now the entire width of my (webview, embedded in ios twitter app) browser.

    Also, fuck nazis, obvs

  6. Steven Munoz says:

    The group is actually called #killtheking in Sweden and they false-flagged D666 along with a couple other bands with a half-assed tirade for pseudo-feminism. No one sympathizes with you, and pulling them from the lineup without promptly announcing it and allegedly fucking people out of their money when they wanted it back is not a good deed, especially when it is done under false pretenses with little to no research on the root cause to begin with. And as far as the Nazi shit goes, were there a case of Nazism in the metal scene, you wouldn't see so many hispanics like me, or various other "marginalized victims of so-called oppression" making an appearance. To put it another way:
    https://youtu.be/EQTT23BdABU

    • Sam says:

      That's bullshit. I have worked metal shows as security and to deny that there is no Nazism in the metal scene is bullshit. Just cuz you don't wanna see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
      And did you miss the part where tickets are being honored at the other venue? Noone is being fucked out of there money.

    • Stevie1der says:

      There are plenty of POC in the Alt-right groups. Just go back and review news video of the group that was to rally at Chrissy Fields. They will turn on you someday, but right now, they need every little weasel like you, so they can show numbers at their rally’s. But let’s talk about facts; did that mysoginist dickhead make that comment? If so, then the decision is the correct one... if not, prove it instead of running your mouth... as far as I’m concerned, Jamie did the right thing period. Who needs that bullshit around here anyway? So go pound sand, and I here The Sahara Desert is perfect this time of year...

      • Jam says:

        Let me preface this by saying that I have never been to DNA and that I, personally, am not a metalhead.

        While the message being expressed here is mostly coming from what I would consider "the right place", there is also a huge contradiction. You can't point at a group of people and say "I don't agree with your belief that a group of people should be treated unfairly, so I will not do business with you" and then infer that all metalheads are sexist and fascists without a severe degree of hypocrisy.

        As a musician who grew up during the 80's, I can tell you, that I have known many people who consider themselves metalheads that are nothing of the sort. I will not say that I have never known any that fall into one or both of those categories, it is absolutely NOT the majority, but rather a large minority. I have also known plenty of people from many different cultural backgrounds and a fair number of gay men and women who consider themselves metalheads.

        Point being, if you're going to point at all metalheads and call them fascist, sexist misogynists, you're just as much a part of the problem as the people you don't want to do business with.

        • Toodleoo says:

          Is he reallt pointing to the entirety of the metal scene or just to a singular band?

          • Toodleoo says:

            And before you go crying about "my poor metal scene" uwu, maybe you should actually read whats being written instead of taking any critique as an attack on the entirety of the scene.

            • Toodleoo says:

              Is he really pointing to the entirety of the metal scene or just to a singular band? And people who cant actively take criticism and completely gaslight whomever decides to critique anything thats happening is definitely a problem. Things are happening and things have happened, sad that you cant take this back to metalheads and say that yall need to self reflect instead of being homophobic and bigoted and stating that thats perfectly fine because "thats the way of the scene man"

              • Jam says:

                The action taken was toward a specific band. The inference of sexism, racism and misogyny seems to be aimed at the metalhead community as a whole. Hence, my post.

                Also, if you read what I wrote as closely as you seem to be inferring I did not do with the original post, you'll notice that I did not excuse any individual's behavior with the statement "it's just part of the scene" nor did I say anything that was bigoted or homophobic. I think the responses the owner got were both and those INDIVIDUALS should be held accountable for their actions as individuals, not as representative of the entire scene.

                And, well, as I very clearly state, it's not my scene.

        • Al Iverson says:

          You seem to be conflating what was actually said with some other straw argument you made up yourself. Good luck with that.

    • Al Iverson says:

      Hey Unknown Facebook User, you sound like an idiot. Is it possible that you are an idiot? You might want to check into that.

      JWZ: Well handled, and right call.

    • Jonathan says:

      The fact that you'd use Pink Guy to further your point when you're ignorant of how much Joji hates and despise cunts like you is really fucking precious.

  7. Sye says:

    You are appreciated.

  8. Well now we can at least understand why the DNA lounge is a poorly run venue . The guy who owns it is a head case .

  9. Joe Newman says:

    Guess we are going to social hall sf for the good shows?

  10. Steven Munoz says:

    Also, racists, misogynists, and homophobes? Must be why I like Hirax, Plasmatics, and love the ever loving fuck out of Judas Priest. To reiterate: please walk your fat ass onto the Cal Train tracks

  11. You do know that Watain played at the DNA Lounge in 2015 opening for Mayhem? I was there and the show was sold out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2vxq8pH8n0

  12. Ryoga Vee says:

    Bravo on having the stones to put convictions over profits.

  13. David Lynds says:

    Good for you DNA. Haven't been for a while but you have my respect. Saw Swans and Alien Sex Fiend there back in the day in the same week.

  14. Metalhead says:

    Thank you for doing your part in this!! As a metal head, this type of behavior (Watain’s) disgusts me. I hope you don’t judge the entire metal scene because of one small sub scene In the metal space. A lot of metal heads are supportive, positive people. But yeah... FUCK Nazis, FUCK Mysogynists, FUCK fuckheads, and yeah FUCK people who think standing passively by while this shit goes down is acceptable because hey “that’s not my battle to wage”. I also encourage you to actively seek out feminist and female fronted music acts to counterbalance this sickening behavior. In Gratitude, a Metalhead DNA fan.

    • Metal4Life says:

      Metal doesn’t want your white knight ass in the scene. Watain’s better than any shitty feminist band you can name.

  15. lol at this post trying to paint Watain as nazis. You kicked their friends and tour mates off the bill and just expect them to go along with it?? I don't really have an opinion on D666 since I'm not familiar with anything that has been said or done by them, but good on Watain for keeping the package together. The metal scene is doomed to fail if bands who choose their support bands go along with venue owners selecting which acts on the bill are okay or not. It should always be the package or nothing. FTW TTD!

    • Seriously, Watain did the right thing here. Can't wait to see them m/

    • Wat says:

      Band: “we want to keep Nazis as our support band or we won’t play”

      Band surprised they are not welcome to play.

      The “metal scene” is doomed if they think casual racism and sexism that was the norm in mid-last century is how many young people want to behave themselves and associate with.

    • Toodleoo says:

      Im a nazi apologist because.....freedom!!! Right. Cause white supremacy is fine as long as people are sticking to their white supremacist beliefs. Because consistency is great. Especially bigoted consistency.

  16. Paul Rain says:

    Sound argument.

    Especially:

    And I'll bet the dudes who say things like "SJWs are ruining metal" are at the same time wondering why there aren't more "chicks" at their shows. Hmmmm, could there be a connection?

    This perfectly explains why there were never any broads at Type O Negative shows.

  17. Dan says:

    Good call. Thanks for taking a stand for the DNA community and community at large.

  18. Different Jamie says:

    Sorry it is such a pain in the ass to avoid these losers.

  19. Claudia says:

    Well done.

  20. Troy says:

    "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

  21. Ty Montz says:

    I just wanted to see some good black metal, damn.

  22. Anne Noise says:

    Thank you for making the city a better place.

  23. He’s telling the truth LOL, hypocrisy of the left is astounding

  24. As much as I love metal, the metal scene has a big problem with many bands having quite questionable morals. Any new band I find that I enjoy on first listen, I have to extensively google to make sure they’re not racist pieces of shit before I’ll allow myself to listen to any more of their music. A lot of shows have been canceled in the US because people are finally starting to make an effort to do something about it. I’ve heard many metalheads complain about it, but I say it’s been long overdue. Good for you! Also, Watain are a terrible band anyways.

    • As you know, this is an old problem too. I’ve been to shows in SF that had to chase nazis out (because they start fights). There is a history in metal and punk of anti-nazi efforts because of how many nazis were in the scenes. The difference now, much like w/the rest of the US is that the nazis are less identifiable. They’re learned to code their look, and their speech. I think it lead people to think they are gone, or that the scene is clear of them. It is not. It worries me that people can claim there are no nazis in the scene when a huge part of the scene has always been telling nazis to fuck off.

      • MattyJ says:

        The secret nazis have codified their haircuts. Any white dude with a wave on top and shaved above the ears is a nazi. It's a proven scientific fact.

  25. metal4ever says:

    can't even understand the lyrics but good that someone pays attention

  26. It’s high time the metal community admits that metal has a nazi problem and stops making excuses for it. It’s even more important not to ignore these things with everything that’s going on in the world. There are plenty of amazing black metal bands that are’t racist pieces of shit. I’ve never listened to D666, but Watain isn’t even a good band...

  27. It’s never cheap to stick to your values. It takes guts to stand up to ppl. I shall come party more 💕

  28. People can't joke anymore. It used to be a fun social thing that people did to pass the time between being bored and living in a world rattled with the everyday fucked up fiasco that is mankind. To dismiss a band for making jokes and simply being that facilitator for all that is righteous it makes the argument punitive and pathetic. Kind of like getting a fix-it ticket and still having to pay that 100$ processing fee.

    • Access: Rock says:

      Jokes? Say someone call your girlfriend a cunt and threaten to give her his “hard” dick? How is that a joke?

    • Al Iverson says:

      Wow, that was a joke? Thank god somebody clarified. I hope they're better musicians than comedians, because that joke wasn't very well constructed.

    • That would be shit talking. Why would a third party involve themselves in other people's business? If i called you a cunt does that mean i should be barred from every business institution? Should I be viewed as an outcast? You can now label someone a misogynist for saying anything you think of as crude. It can ruin a person over being labeled something that isn't true. It's repulsive and wrong. It feels like society has not learned to turn the other cheek over PC drivel that drives social media. I could label DNA Lounge as a racist institution even if it isn't true and strangers I don't know could make their business less savory to the public.

      • und1sk0 says:

        PC is a myth. It's called being polite and respectful. If I say "hey yo don't call that person a cunt" I'm not a SJW, I'm just telling you that you were out of line. But people don't want to hear that they are out of line, and they double down. Yeah, you have a right to call anyone you want to whatever kind of shitty unacceptable term you like: faggot, nigger, retard, spic, cunt, cuck, sjw, snowflake, ; what you can't control is the consequences. So maybe you should have chose your words more wisely, and definitely not double down when someone told you that calling someone a cunt ain't right. Even if you dumb it down to the level of calling someone a jerk, it's still better to attack argument or the statement instead of the person. Every last person that complains about things being too PC is a person making excuses for their own insecurities when they punch down instead of choosing to engage in civil debate.

    • John Carlson says:

      Yeah, it's truly awful that you can't make shitty comments about people standing against sexual assault without people deciding not to do business with you, what's the world coming to?

    • John Carlson all while behind a keyboard right? It's sad that sarcasm no longer has a placein this world.

    • They're Australian, dumbass. It's not a big deal to call someone that there. Ar least know something before spouting ignorance.

  29. This place is going out of business and this person could probably be the reason.

  30. Amy LC says:

    I like how you conventily left out why KK said what he said at that festival that caused this 'uproar' with you.
    Your excuse for not telling people that D666 was booted because you 'didn't want to agitate the booking agent' was lame too. Perhaps if you would've, people wouldn't be so pissed off at you right now.
    I was hoping you might have learned something from all this, but based on this blog post, it seems like you haven't. You'd rather throw around labels at metalheads like racists, misogynists, and homophobes.
    At least you gave us our money back, though so good on you for that. 🤔

    • CombatBoot says:

      "I like how you conventily left out why KK said what he said at that festival that caused this 'uproar' with you."

      Please, what was left out here? Seriously, enlighten me to the context around saying people who have experienced sexual abuse and assault "need a hard cock" and how it makes that an acceptable thing to say. And yes, based on the research I was able to get (in Swedish, so harder to find), it was said, and it caused enough concern that the communications manager of the venue in Sweden where it came up had to make a statement of apology and trying to distance themselves from the situation...something I don't think DNA wants to have to deal with if the same thing happens here.

      And please do not say "it was a joke". That excuse is worn out, and that's coming from someone with a pretty tolerant sense of humor.

      • Mary says:

        Yeah, but the Swedes are known for being a pack of easily-offended soft-cocks (ironically enough). People who are so easily hurt by mere words don't have a place in the black metal scene and should mind their own fucking business.

  31. Ana says:

    I've been a fan of DNA Lounge for a few years and I drive over 3hrs for shows or just a slice of pizza, and always felt safe and comfortable environment. Just want to say thanks for the awesome pizza you make and awesome shows you put together.

  32. You’re a good person. Thanks for making the hard choices.

  33. Andy says:

    "Actually I don't give a shit about metal."
    That's obvious, you could've stopped there...

    "We'll book pretty much anything, so long as we think it won't be a security problem, a legal problem, or lose us a bunch of money.
    But you know what? We chose not to do business with misogynists, racists, homophobes and Nazis."
    The 2nd and 3rd sentences completely contradict the first, so at least don't pretend "we'll book pretty much anything", because it's clearly not true.

    "at the same time wondering why there aren't more 'chicks' at their shows."
    Is anyone actually wondering this, or did you make it up? Because there are lots of "chicks" at both Watain and D666 shows (which you should know, as BOTH bands have played your venue before which apparently was no problem). They're strong women who don't need men like you trying to "save" them by pretending you know what's best for them.

    "Problem solved, I guess, and lessons learned: I guarantee you that my team will be googling things like "bandname nazi" more often in the future than they have been so far."

    Great idea, why didn't you think of that sooner? No seriously, WHY DIDN'T YOU THINK OF THAT SOONER? Fucking clownshoes.

    • Duane W says:

      When poor research, virtue signaling and PC ethics make you look like a moron 101, none of the bands are Nazi either - the #metoo movement made women who get cat called thing they are rape survivors, ie: people are too sensitive, this fucking dipshit owner thinks he is providing a safe space with this ultimate virtue signal but he's loosing business over the fact, and then he fucking puts a patreon link PATHETIC

      I hope the bay area falls into the fucking ocean.

      • MattyJ says:

        The San Andreas fault mostly runs south of the bay area, so unfortunately for you, it's actually Southern California and Baja that's going to float out to sea. Sorry.

    • MattyJ says:

      This whole 'they played there nnn years ago' is like saying 'Bill Cosby used to have a TV show, so give him a break.'

      Your arguments are stupid. You're stupid.

  34. Andy Walko says:

    "Actually I don't give a shit about metal."
    That's obvious, you could've stopped there...

    "We'll book pretty much anything, so long as we think it won't be a security problem, a legal problem, or lose us a bunch of money.
    But you know what? We chose not to do business with misogynists, racists, homophobes and Nazis."
    The 2nd and 3rd sentences completely contradict the first, so at least don't pretend "we'll book pretty much anything", because it's clearly not true.

    "at the same time wondering why there aren't more 'chicks' at their shows."
    Is anyone actually wondering this, or did you make it up? Because there are lots of "chicks" at both Watain and D666 shows (which you should know, as BOTH bands have played your venue before which apparently was no problem). They're strong women who don't need men like you trying to "save" them by pretending you know what's best for them.

    "Problem solved, I guess, and lessons learned: I guarantee you that my team will be googling things like "bandname nazi" more often in the future than they have been so far."

    Great idea, why didn't you think of that sooner? No seriously, WHY DIDN'T YOU THINK OF THAT SOONER? Fucking clownshoes.

  35. Ryan Bruno says:

    Well I wasn’t going to go to this show but I think I will now. Watain sucks but D666 kicks ass.

  36. Bai Hui says:

    I just have one question about the whole #metoo thing. Why do you go to Hollywood in the first place if you don't want to get fucked?

  37. Al Iverson says:

    Right call, JWZ.

  38. That was extremely hard to read lol

  39. Jess says:

    Yeah, you're soooo inclusive. That must explain all the 1 star reviews about your treatment of people with disabilities. Nice virtue signaling though.

  40. Jenni says:

    Well done, Mr. Z. We need more people like you, where the almighty dollar is not the rule.

  41. Proud Metalhead says:

    Keep patting yourself on the back for being a hero of inclusion and calling ALL metalheads racist and misogynist. Guess you'll have cancel all the metal shows now. May as well throw in rap too since a lot of those guys are misogynist as well. Guess you may as well close your doors now. At least you'll be a bum with self riteous conscience.

    • MattyJ says:

      He never called _all_ metalheads anything. But he maybe should have called all metalheads illiterate.

  42. This is really pathetic.

  43. jwz says:

    Just a technical detail for those of you wondering what's up with all the "Unknown Facebook User" stuff: those are comments that were made on the Facebook copy of this post that are being mirrored here, rather than being posted here directly; but Facebook recently changed the API so it's no longer showing the real names. If you click the link on the user, you can see the original comment and the name.

  44. Eddie Adams says:

    Yay, all the Nazi supporters have outed themselves..Nazi supporters or just poor thinkers, take your pick

  45. Astra says:

    I just doubled my Patreon to the DNA. <3 to you, fuckoff to the garbage.

  46. Elitist Metalhead Jerk says:

    If you're going to turn away your loyal clients then you deserve to go out of business! I have no pity for you.

  47. You were obviously raised right.

  48. I really appreciate you doing this.

  49. thylantryr says:

    What is a "metalhead" ? I take people to various shows where the genre is a form of "metal", but they are not metalheads, they are humans like everyone else who likes live entertainment without the genre labels.

    Musicians push the envelope to promote their bands and certain genres of music create fear because of the unknown. In the old days, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin was considered "devil music", whatever that means. Ronnie Dio said Good music is good music.

    Bands are here to put on a good show for the fans. I've seen Watain a few times in SF bay area, the performance was high energy and great tunes; there is no drama, just state house rules for all bands that attend so they don't get carried away with on stage antics.

  50. polynesian_metal says:

    WTF are we supposed to do if we have will call tickets? Will they be honored at the new venue, Social Hall, or do we get a refund and just buy our tickets at the door there.
    You have a problem DNA.

    • jwz says:

      Your will call tickets will be honored at social hall. Bring your confirmation code.

  51. adib says:

    So..we have a mysoginist band (Manowar - Pleasure slave), a nazi collectors(Jeff Hanemann / Lemmy Kilmister - :) ), a band who made war apology (Bolt Thrower), a band who love to made horrific sex with womens (Fucked With a Knife - Cannibal Corpse)... I think you take to much in serious the image of a band instead what the real persons are they...

  52. alex says:

    hello! read the controversy about the death metal bands being canceled. will you apply your new policy across all musical genres including genres that are comprised of mostly non white artists? for instance, hip hop/rap artists have a lot of misogynistic lyrics talking about women as property, describing women as sex objects, and bragging about using women. will you allow such artists to perform in your venue?

  53. Ty Thompson says:

    I agree with them being taken off the bill.
    HOWEVER, I'm not too keen on the owner Mr. Z, the benevolent dictator, pretending to be a good person. Your windowlicking pizza monkeys would also agree with this. Maybe consider not subscribing to the patreon that supports someone who just got a lawsuit for not paying his employees sickpay.

  54. Metal Chris says:

    As a long time metal head and fan of underground black metal I have to say the statement by the venue on this matter is AWESOME! So many of us are tired of these bands full of bigots getting passes. They make the rest of us look bad and they normalize their toxic views in the metal scene.

    Thank you for doing the right thing and thank you for issuing such a great statement about why you did it. I wish we had more venue owners and booking agents with as much of a spine here in Washington DC.

  55. wish i could hang says:

    i agree with and respect your positions on all of this. honestly, i would love to patronize your club, but $20 for a PBR and a well whiskey is fucked, even for SF.

  56. Walgreens says:

    Damn google is really ruining things

  57. MrEricSir says:

    The comment section here reminds me why I deleted my Facebook account, and why I need to attend more shows at DNA Lounge.

  58. Suckmydick says:

    I have visited the DNA Lounge four years to see metal concerts but now with your virtue signaling and your political bullshit you will never see another dime for me.

    I hope your business rots.

    Your pizza is greasy as shit.

    Fuck you and fuck san francisco.

    Build the wall.

    • und1sk0 says:

      "Virtue Signalling" is another bullshit term. Expressing your values and holding to them is the right thing to do. Trying to attack a person who is expressing a sentiment like "we are inclusive and that means no misogyny, homophobia, racism and hatred will be tolerated" is a statement of values and in this case backed by taking action - which was not an easy thing to do. Reducing that principal to some derisive buzz-word like "oh, that person is just (sarcastic air quotes) virtue signalling and they're a SJW and a PC cuck" is just an attempt to belittle and negate the stance you have a hard time arguing against: being a bigot and a bully is not acceptable. Of course I am maybe wasting my time explaining that to you, "Suckmydick". I'll gladly replace those dimes you won't be spending at DNA and with the knowledge that hopefully people who think and act like you will be staying out of SF. Good riddance. To be fair, the pizza does tend to be a bit greasy.

      • MattyJ says:

        An alternate view is that you're giving Suckmydick too much credit by implying he's simply misusing a term. My bet is that he only knows the buzzwords he hears on NRA.com and InfoWars and regurgitates them out of context.

        Another alternate view is that I've never eaten a pizza that was worse when more grease was in it. I think that's a problem you get with good pepperoni (Zoe's?) Though some of us fat asses don't consider that a problem. You can use the paper plate as a support to hold up the gooey end as you fold the pizza. Because if you're using utinsils to eat pizza, I can't even ...

  59. Koah Alvarado says:

    Fucking dirty kikes.

  60. Martin says:

    Also just doubled my Patreon pledge. Kinda wish I lived a bit closer (than the UK) and could actually come to some shows sometimes!

  61. My respect for Watain actually is raised again.
    I hope it did cost you a ton.

  62. Will says:

    Just wanted to say thank you for 1) doing this and 2) sharing it. It's the club owner's equivalent of rocking out with your junk out.

  63. Beatrice says:

    I've seen both Watain and Destroyer 666 long before these Antifa crybabies tried to CENSOR everything I like! Also I've seen Masrdfuk and Taake before Antifa came along to censor them! I bleeping hate Antifa and their over reactive good for nothing censorship antics! I love my fave black metal bands. These guys do visual /artwork type stuff just to be pulling some folks chains and get attention but I don't mind at all. They are no faschists. The faschists are the people who threaten violence if some band they don't understand over does things and tries to censor every band not to their liking. NUFF SAID!!!

  64. Beatrice says:

    I've seen both Watain and Destroyer 666 long before these Antifa crybabies tried to CENSOR everything I like! Also I've seen Marduk
    and Taake before Antifa came along to censor them! I bleeping hate Antifa and their over reactive good for nothing censorship antics! I love my fave black metal bands. These guys do visual /artwork type stuff just to be pulling some folks chains and get attention but I don't mind at all. They are no faschists. The faschists are the people who threaten violence if some band they don't understand over does things and tries to censor every band not to their liking. NUFF SAID!!!

  65. Mike Stender says:

    So how many times has Kool Keith played there? Of course you would never stand up against him because you're cowards and hypocrites. So there's that...

  66. Mark Murray says:

    My question is will you use the same scrutiny of online research/twitter posts of all future artists looking to be booked at your venue? Mayhem has played there before... a band who's notoriety is largely due to past members being murdered and burning churches. Will all band lyrics be reviewed for potentially "questionable" material by your standards.

    There are people who believe that burlesque is "taboo", etc. etc. Just curious to see where your lines are drawn.

  67. Justin says:

    I just want to say you're all a bunch of cunts for trying to shame those who don't think like you. Fuck you DNA lounge, this is America. You have the right to be a cunt and I have the right to call you one.

    And don't think that because I don't agree with your BS I'm a nazi or homophobe... but I know your small mind will not understand it any other way.

    I hope you go bankrupt trying to play moral police.

  68. RamsteinElsewhere says:

    DNA Lounge comes across as much more metal than other players in this scrum.

  69. Paul Audino says:

    DNA Lounge is an awesome venue. Among the so-called "SJW" bands I've seen there are acts like Godflesh, Dave Lombardo's PHILM and the Revolting Cocks BSL. I don't know anything about Destroyer666, but had been looking forward to checking out WATAIN after reading reviews of their last album and liking it. It's unfortunate that a band whose music I like would take an action to "punish" a venue that does so much for so many different musical scenes in SF. But I applaud DNA Lounge for taking a stand AND embracing the consequences. I believe their version of the events leading up to the cancellation of Friday's show and will sit out the rescheduled show at Social Hall.

  70. Thank you for this

  71. Rob Locatell says:

    Is there a specific email address to inquire about a ticket refund?

  72. Mark Murray says:

    ATTN EVERYONE - straight from the source so get your refunds:

    Thank you for contacting Social Hall SF. Although sources stated that this show was being moved to our venue, we will not be hosting this event at Social Hall SF on Friday. You will need to contact DNA Lounge for more information about your ticket if already purchased for the show.

  73. Valeriana says:

    the nazism today it's very different of the third reich, now you can find nazism in the hospital, in the school, university, McDonald, Cocacola, Nestlé,Philip Morris,Unilever,Chiquita,Procter & Gamble,Novartis,Esso,Monsanto,Burger King,Mitsubishi,Kodak,Pepsi,Shell,Sun Diamond,Walt Disney,Totalfina-Elf,Bayer, Henkel, Johnson & Johnson, L'Oreal,Glaxo, Danone, Benetton, H&M etc etc... please boicot you this brands

  74. Aimee C says:

    Jamie, you're awesome. Thanks for doing the right thing, and more importantly, owning doing the right thing.

  75. Anonymous says:

    Was really, really looking forward to this show :(

    You're not "doing the right thing," you're just claiming a moral high ground so you can make a statement and talk about it with your SF phonies.

    If you blacklist every artist who has ever said or done anything offensive there would be no one left except Yanni and Amy Grant.

    Learn the difference between being "inclusive" and pandering.

  76. Blank says:

    I support free enterprise and believe in your right to conduct business they way you choose. You made a decision under hard circumstances and stuck by your convictions, I commend you for you choice.

    Sadly however, you have dishonored yourself as a business owner, a music promoter, and a Californian. You have allowed your ideological agenda to circumvent the integrity of your business. The reputation The DNA lounge has carried with it is long standing, but is now up for heavy scrutiny, and rightfully so.

    The way in which you handled this whole situation is frankly shameful. Ticket holders are suddenly receiving refunds the day before the show, while under the pretenses the concert had been relocated. You openly admit that moving the show has been under review for a long while, since January, and deliberately avoided informing your patrons. Even worse you admit to not researching the performing acts before booking them, all while saying The DNA lounge plays “all kinds of music”, but decided to take a moral high ground when you caught wind of negative accusations about the bands from outside sources. After selling tickets to concert goers, you allowed your beliefs invade your work, but without any real reason for this. You have only left us, the attendees, with an explanation that’s based on your feelings, and not rooted in any real logic. Except that they performers are misogynist Nazis.

    Misogynist and Nazi are very easy words to throw around. They are like buckshot. You fire away and can hit just about anything. But you have no evidence of these labels. You sighted Watain’s long history of defending against being called a Nazi band, but provide no source. You use one quoted phrase from the D666 frontman, but with no context. You blame the bands agents for failing to decide on an outcome for the situation, but refused to make a decision yourself until the last chance, and then defend these actions with ethics. I believe your morals clearly compromised your ethics here, because you crossed a line you can’t uncross.

    You labeled fans of the band as Nazis themselves.

    It’s not difficult to hate Nazis. Western culture is practically built on it. You have defended your choices by diminishing the beliefs of others in a broad, blanket accusation like calling ticket holders Nazis and telling them to Fuck off. This is morally reprehensible and ethically inexcusable. I believe that you have greatly abused your power as an owner of a venue and promoter of music. Or maybe you are to naive to understand the importance of your position. Music is about having a voice. It’s the truest possible expression of our fist amendment rights, and live music is the epitome of engaging that voice. Diverse individuals coming together in revelry for connecting with one another. It’s the literally act of feeling with other people, en mass. It’s an olive branch. You have begun to saw away at it.

    I wish you well in your business. I hope your choices reward you, but this was not a good thing you did. This just inflates the stereotype that SF is a exclusionary bubble. Times are hard I’m in our world being so fragmented as our nation is. You have widened that split just a tiny bit more with your words. I suggest you think more critically about your next public response, and perhaps research your next bookings before taking money from people.

  77. Mega KK Warslut Fan says:

    I met Destroyer 666 some years ago at a urinal. I was pissing next to KK Warslut and I looked over and saw his dick. It was very, very tiny. And yes, I look when I'm trashed. No, I'm not making this up. It just cracks me up that the physical deformity this guy has is still influencing the way he acts and the kind of fans he attracts.

  78. Tr00 KK Warslut Fan says:

    I met Destroyer 666 some years ago at a urinal. I was pissing next to KK Warslut and I looked over and saw his dick. It was very, very tiny. And yes, I look when I'm trashed. No, I'm not making this up. It just cracks me up that the physical deformity this guy has is still influencing the way he acts and the kind of fans he attracts.

  79. ryan says:

    "Yes, metalheads are a simple, gentle folk who merely want to enjoy their growled sexist and racist diatribes in peace!"

    I just feel compelled to address some things on this subject. Although, I most assuredly appreciate the owners views and rights on who performs at the venue I am somewhat disappointed in the tone of the message.

    I am a social worker who needs to take in account things like the transcultural perspective in order to serve my community as best I can. I am also a die hard metal head. I won't argue the finer points of whether or not the band should play at your venue. I would however point out broad sweeping generalizations of a community whether sarcastic or not, can be perceived (correctly perhaps) or simply misconstrued as a prejudicial statement against a group of people. Which is what I understand you are claiming to be against.

    • jwz says:

      I was responding to a particular comment, representative of several others in the same vein, saying "why make this political", as if metal, or any music, has ever been or can ever be apolitical. No, you can't just ignore the message because it doesn't affect you -- doing so is supporting it. Saying nothing is in itself picking a side.

      • Ryan says:

        I appreciate your passion on this subject and respect your opinion. My only suggestion would be to focus on clarity and tone. Inferred reasoning can be difficult on subjects like this due in part to the nature of the topic.

  80. Ned says:

    If you are going to go this route, I sure hope I never see any rap artists on your stage with horrible views and lyrics on women!!! Will be watching and waiting for that!

    • jwz says:

      Whatabout-ism is the best ism.

      • Bee says:

        But they are right though
        Metal shouldn't be the only genre given this treatment alone
        All genres in music experience their fair share of mysogyny, racism or any form of bigotry that are barely being touched upon.
        If a company is going to make the hard choice in making their venue and their customers safe, then they should put their money where their mouth is and do the same with the singers and bands that use their venue.

  81. Monty says:

    I have no real connection to this venue or event, I'm only commenting here after stumbling upon this kerfuffle through second hand sources.
    With that said;
    What kind of world are we living in where "misogyny" is a bridge too far within the context of a music scene notorious for it's promotion of unironic theistic Satanism and general misanthropy?
    "Feel free to worship the literal personification of Evil with a capital E, glorify death and murder, but don't you DARE be a racist or insult women, because that is immoral!" I can already hear the indignant reply "we don't actually support those things we just like the music!" from the "metal fans" that support this, as if that's somehow a defense and doesn't reinforce how ridiculous you are for claiming to be fans of a music scene built upon the desecration of sacred cows then turning around and throwing a fit when they do exactly that. It's all fun and games when churchs are burned and people are literally murdered but when they go make a cruel comment about women suddenly the laughter stops ("Whoa! Not cool dude!"), and we have to pretend to be sober and moral people above such uncouth behavior! A regular Metal Moral Majority!

    I feel like I have stumbled upon a quiet controversy where a barbecue festival was canceled when the venue owner found out that there was meat on the menu, and somehow "barbecue fans" are coming out in support of the venue owner "taking a stand" against animal cruelty in the barbecue scene.

    You people in San Francisco are weird.

  82. homiegot says:

    This is just the continuing death of Western culture and the headlong race into the brick wall of a dead end culture.

    DNA Lounge and every club like it will turn into a hellhole echo chamber of shit music. Go to hell.